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Among the words put in John Wesley’s mouth that he did not actually say, perhaps the most common are the following:
I set myself on fire and people come to watch me burn.
Wesley never said that.
If you do a google search, you will easily come up with numerous examples of this quote being attributed to Wesley. What you will not find is a citation of the source where Wesley is supposed to have actually said it.
This one is particularly timely, as just this weekend someone I follow on twitter retweeted something Craig Groeschel tweeted. (Groeschel is the pastor of LifeChurch, a mega church with multiple satellite campuses. He is also a former United Methodist pastor.) Here is Groeschel’s tweet:
“Set yourself on fire with passion & people will come for miles to watch you burn.” John Wesley
Groeschel’s version has the quote as instructions or a command. Due to the number of followers that Groeschel has on twitter, more than 100 people have retweeted his original tweet. (My point here is not to slam Groeschel, I am sure he meant well and did not realize that this is falsely attributed to Wesley. Many, many other people have made the same mistake. But, for me this is an interesting study in how quickly inaccurate information can spread on the internet.)
I cannot quote a print source for documentation that this is not in Wesley. However, I do have an email from Dr. Richard Heitzenrater that is a response to a query from a Wesley Studies email group that asked about the source of this quote. Heitzenrater basically responded to the email by saying – look for that quote in Wesley as long as you want, you won’t find it.
It troubles me that this quote is so frequently attributed to Wesley, because to me it does not sound like something that Wesley would have said. In the email string that first made me aware of how often this is attributed to Wesley, someone commented that the quote was rather “braggadocious” and as a result did not sound like Wesley. I agree. It would not be characteristic of Wesley to say, “I do something awesome, and as a result people come to look at me.” Wesley’s desire was not to attract people to himself, but to point them to the risen Lord who he believed was their only hope of salvation.
In any event, Wesley didn’t say that. We should stop saying that he did.
Note: This is the second post about things Wesley did not actually say. To read the first post, click here.
Kevin, I think some form of the quote goes back to the 16th century with the burning at the stake of either Latimer or Ridley during “Bloody Mary’s” reign.
Try this: ‘Be of good comfort, Master Ridley, and play the man. We shall this day light such a candle, by God’s grace in England, as I trust shall never be put out.’
This is not the exact quote, but I think the quote you’re chasing can be traced to this event.
Wow I’m guilty. I just quoted this last week.
Thank you for sharing. It’s like the book of hebrews attributed to Paul though he probably didn’t write it. I’m going to stop now
Another one i wish people would quit quoting (so to speak): http://web.me.com/craigadams1/Commonplace_Holiness/Blog/Entries/2010/2/1_I’m_Tired_of_Seeing_this_on_Twitter!.html
(Sorry, there’s an exclamation point in that link. Copy and Paste is necessary.)
Concerning “I set myself on fire” my private theory (and that’s all that it is) has been that it is something out of Tyreman, since it cannot be found in Wesley’s published works. Methodists used to quote Wesley liberally without giving citations.
But, then again if Heitzenrater says it’s bogus….
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Kevin,
First let me say that it’s great to see younger men (no offense intended) with a passion to pursue Christ wholeheartedly. Our world needs more of them. For that matter, it needs more men who display Christlikeness. I hope you enjoy this quote by Edwin Cole, ‘Manhood and Christlikeness are synonomous’.
My views on a couple of things here. While you may not find record that he said this, it doesn’t necessarily mean he didn’t.
The first time I read this quote I didn’t in any way think it braggadocious. Quite the opposite. In context with the his story of why it was quoted, it brought me to my knees in tears asking for this fire of passion that would stand up in the face of opposition and resistance to God doing a new thing at that time and in our time.
I don’t believe that this quote would have been drawing attention to himself. I believe each day we need to ask God to set us on fire. I would use the term, I need to set myself on fire for God. This is not an arrogant statement, but one of fact. God will not violate our will. He asks us to cooperate with him and if we don’t set ourselves on fire it’s because we are wet wood, or a lamp under a basket.
God commands us to ‘stir up the gift’. To stir up means to fan into flame, or to set ourselves on fire as the quote states.
The fist time I heard this was from a business book by Mark Sanborn. God is at work in every facet of society. It’s not too often you hear preaching with such passion, let alone a business book.
I’d like to leave one other quote with you that has made an impact in my life.
‘You can be one of God’s thousands of failures, or few successes. But it is going to require a higher degree of holiness, and a greater understanding of intercession.’
Be blessed,
Bill
Wahhhh… time waster. You have no real evidence that it wasn’t him. So all i’m saying is that you are just complaining about something you are completely unsure of yourself. You were heard so your objective is complete but your ability to bring any resolve is dead…
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http://www.snopes.com has a Religion section; a page of Wesley misquotes may be a little too specialized for them, but you could ask.
Kevin,
Two thoughts:
1. To agree with Bill, “I do something awesome” is nowhere in this quote – It’s more of “I realize I can’t do anything on my own, not even heal an ant, and I must abide in the Vine, really.”
2. What exactly is the point behind who the quote is from? Would you be pointing out that the “founder” of less “fiery” denominations never said such things, so it’s fitting to lack the “fire”? I’m just not sure why it matters.
Dave
Bill, Dave, and Anonymous –
One of the major motivations for me in writing this post is that I am an historian of early Methodism. Perhaps it is an occupational hazard, but to me the details matter. John Wesley’s life and written words have been chronicled with quite a bit of detail. Because of his fame in later life, libraries and private collectors have originals of many of the letters he wrote. We also have published versions of all of his published journals, extant diaries and more than 100 sermons. Of course every word he said is not captured in his published works. However, the phrase in this post does not occur in anything that reliably comes from John Wesley.
The only motivation behind the post is that there is no historical evidence that Wesley ever said “I set myself on fire and people come to watch me burn.” There is no deeper ideological or theological issue behind this. For what it is worth, in discussions with other scholars in Wesleyan Studies or Methodist History, no one has ever suggested to me that they have any evidence or reason to believe Wesley did say it.
From my perspective, whether you like the quote or not does not make it more or less likely that Wesley actually said it. I also think people are free to continue using the quote. My preference would simply be that they not attribute it to John Wesley.
Blessings,
Kevin
Also…to say ‘you can’t prove he didn’t say it’ is not a good defense or response. I might as well attribute something like “There is no charge for awesomeness or attractiveness” to Wesley. Well, you can’t prove he didn’t say it.
As a fellow student of Wesley and early Methodism, thanks, Kevin for posting this!
I stumbled on this article while trying to authenticate this quote to Welsey, because I heard it in a sermon and wanted to use it myself but of course needed a primary source instead of a secondary one. From what I heard of this quote, it was in the context of a conversation someone had with Wesley rather than Wesley writing it himself, therefore the quote would not be in his work but someone else’s. Has this angle been researched?
But as a proclaimer of truth it is vitally important that what I say is true even in small matters of attributing quotes to the right people. So thank you for this material!
Okay, we get it! Would you have been any less offended if he attributed the comment to “someone once said . . .”?
Great dialogue. I was going to reference Wesley on this one, but chose to do some last minute sniffing around to see if I could find a citation as to the sermon or journal entry that contains this quote. Pretty pleased to have stumbled upon this post and its comments.
Vick, your thoughts of September 18, 2011 reminded me of something: I was leading worship one Sunday in the summer of 2000 and made reference to Song of Solomon 2.10, singing “Arise my Love, my beautiful one and come with me…” as an impromptu refrain. With all the right intentions, I ‘worship-led’ extemporaneously with “This is Jesus speaking to the church…” It was a simple enough thing to say, jumping on board with the ‘allegorical interpretation of the Song of Songs’ in a live moment. However, there was a seminary prof there who took me out for coffee the next day, confessing that I had, with all my enthusiasm and worship fervour, created a wall during our singing time that prevented him from getting anything out of the rest of the gathering. Apparently he was not a fan of the ‘allegorical interpretation of the Song of Songs.’
When asked how I could have more meaningfully led the people through that moment, he said “If you would have said something like ‘Imagine this is Jesus speaking to his church’ I probably would have been fine.”
‘Someone once said…’ seems to be a similar shock absorber.
These little land mines are buried all over a congregation, waiting for someone to carelessly set them off. I’m pretty grateful to this crowd and to Kevin Watson for giving me one less spot to unwittingly blow myself (or at least some of my credibility) as I navigate any given Sunday morning without a really good map.
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Darryl Dozlaw mentioned, “This is Jesus speaking to the church…” and the ‘allegorical interpretation of the Song of Songs.’
Is it incorrect to see Canticles as Jesus and His beloved? I certainly hope not, for it is a massivley powerful encouragement to me.
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In 15 Characteristics of Effective Pastors: How to Strengthen Your Inner Core …
By Kevin W. Mannoia, Larry Walkemeyer (http://books.google.com/books?id=Nrup8vKd7gcC&lpg=PA124&dq=I%20set%20myself%20on%20FIRE%2C%20they%20come%20to%20watch%20me%20burn&pg=PA123#v=onepage&q&f=false) he says that Wesley said that to Anglican Bishop
Yes, and just as it always is on twitter, there is no attribution to the quotation in the book you cite. It is a great story, but this citation does nothing to undermine the reality that there is no historical basis (beyond people asserting that he said it) for Wesley having said this.
Actually none of these people wrote this. The quote is taken from scripture. Jeremiah 5:14. When applying that scripture to yourself, when preaching, you get the famous quote.
“Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water.”
I think it would be an interesting study to analyze the uses of such falsely attributed quotations: why are they used? in what settings? why Wesley? what does it say about the authority that Wesley quotes wield in certain circles? wave Wesley’s words always been used in such a manner? was there a day or time when Wesley’s words would have had no cache, thus people would have gained little by attributing such phrases to him?
David, I completely agree. I think this would be a fascinating study!
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